AFL 2025, Round 20 Talking Points

Baz gets into it with cheeky North fan | 00:55

There’s fears rival clubs could raid disgruntled Essendon stars after the club’s injury crisis has “put them back 12 months.”

Plus two epic finals statements from the AFL’s newest sides — though coming from vastly different paths — and concerns for North Melbourne and Carlton.

The big issues from Round 20 of the 2025 AFL season analysed in foxfooty.com.au’sTalking Points!

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FEARS OF BOMBERS RAID AS INJURY CRISIS HAS ‘PUT THEM BACK 12 MONTHS’

There’s fears that rival clubs could raid disgruntled Essendon stars after another tough season where an injury crisis “has put them back 12 months.”

The Bombers were smashed by the Western Bulldogs by 93 points on Friday night in the third 90-point plus defeat for Brad Scott’s side in 2025.

And Jordan Ridley (hamstring) added to the Dons’ ever-growing injury list, that featured 15 players on it during the week, to paint the dire picture after it was confirmed club fitness boss Sean Murphy would depart his role.

It comes amid rumblings senior Bombers could be gettable for rival clubs at season’s end, with free agent Sam Draper, who’s out for the season with an Achilles injury, the most likely to depart amid links to Brisbane and Adelaide.

Twelve months on from St Kilda’s reported failed bid for Zach Merrett, the star skipper pledged his commitment to the Bombers on Fox Footy’s AFL 360.

Yet rivals are expected to circle Essendon’s guns and test their loyalty to the club in what shapes as a defining period.

Dogs down Dons with absolute ease | 02:10

“How broken is this football club?,” chief Herald Sun reporter Jay Clark posed on Fox Footy.

“I think they’ll be the most attacked list in the competition. Ridley, Kyle Langford, Merrett — I think every club in the comp will be trying to pick off one of these stars and trying to test the spirit and connection of this group.

“Other clubs would be trying to dangle the carrot. (Merrett) would be the most frustrated footballer in the competition at the moment. It’s not just him, all of them.

“I think clubs will come for them.

“If Draper leaves, a penny for Merrett’s thoughts. I know he said all the right things on AFL 360, but I just worry.”

Dual premiership Kangaroo David said the “greater disaster” to the 6-12 Bombers’ season would be the potential loss of players to other clubs.

“If you’re telling me Zach Merrett is a chance to leave, I’m really nervous,” King said.

“I am worried about (other stars leaving), of course it’d be a blow for them. But nothing like the captain leaving.”

Meanwhile Tigers champion Jack Riewoldt thinks the injury crisis has the potential to set the club back several years and “rip the heart out of the rebuild” after the Bombers have regenerated their list and prioritised the draft over trade and free agency over the last 12 months.

“I already think the injury crisis has put them back 12 months of where they thought they might be. Because there’s long-term injuries there, we won’t see Nic Martin next year, you wouldn’t think. with an ACL so late in this season,” Riewoldt said.

“The continuity of games and time you were hoping to get into those players, that’s got to be parked for another 12 months.

“This could put them back three, four or five years from potentially challenging for a flag.”

EXPANSION CLUBS MAKE BIG FINALS STATEMENT AS FLAG ‘WILDCARD’ EMERGES

It was a big round for the AFL’s two newest expansion clubs as they continued their finals charge with grand statements. It’d sure leave the AFL with a big smile.

And as the GWS Giants and Gold Coast Suns close in on their September campaigns, they come from vastly different paths.

There’s a big, big ‘wildcard’ emerging in this year’s flag race that rival heavyweights should be taking notice of.

For this is a Giants side with a plethora of finals experience including two deep post-season runs over the last two years. They’ve come close, without climbing the mountain.

And the Giants are currently running hot, with nine wins from their last 11 games, underlined by an epic 44-point victory over crosstown rival Sydney. That epic nine-goal blitz in the third quarter might be the best patch of form we’ve seen from any team so far in 2025.

It’s seen Adam Kingsley’s side rocket back into top four calculations, despite fighting for a top eight spot altogether only a few short weeks ago, such is how close this year’s finals race is.

Boosted by the return of several stars and at full strength again — prior to some casualties on the weekend — GWS has all the tools to go a couple of steps further in 2025.

“They are the form team of the competition,” Saints legend Leigh Montagna said on Fox Footy after Friday night’s win over the Swans.

“They’ve now won nine of their last 11 including a couple of wins against against the Cats and wins over Gold Coast and Brisbane. And what they did against a Swans team in pretty good form.

“They might be the team peaking at the right time of the season. Adam Kinglsey has spoken about that in the past, the way they train this group up, he’s learned from his Richmond days, they wanted to get them right at the end of the season. They’ve had some bad luck in finals in recent years.

“But maybe they are the wildcard in this year’s finals race.”

Greene & Hogan on 'all-time' HT spray | 01:49

Currently sitting sixth on the ladder but equal with the fourth-placed Cats and half a game behind the third-placed Lions, the Giants face a defining clash with the Western Bulldogs at Marvel Stadium next week. But they’ll be without skipper Toby Greene due to suspension, while Jack Buckley and Josh Kelly will miss the rest of the home and away season due to soft tissue blows.

The Dogs clash is followed by meetings with North Melbourne, Gold Coast and St Kilda to cap off their regular season.

If GWS can win at least three of those four games, it’ll put the club in a strong position to challenge for the top four.

Breakout Giants star Lachie Ash told foxfooty.com.au last week that last year’s finals failure — where the Giants coughed up big leads against Sydney and eventual premier Brisbane — “really hurt” an that he hoped it’d hold them in good stead if they return to the September stage.

“I guess you’ve got to get close and break your heart before you can succeed. Look at Brisbane, they were knocking on the door for four or five years then finally got over the line. Hopefully that’s our story this year,” Ash said.

Montagna also suggested that finals heartbreak could’ve helped shape and mature Kingsley’s troops and make them better placed for a flag tilt.

“They really were hot at the end of last season and in those finals games. They just blew two fourth quarters against the Swan and Brisbane which has eaten them up and fueled them all pre-season and fueled them to get back there again this year. How much can they learn from those experiences?,” the dual All-Australian added.

“From what we saw (against Sydney) in that third quarter, they might’ve learned plenty. They might be a better product than this time 12 months ago. Who knows.”

Suns smash Lions in QLD derby | 02:06

Dimma proud & heaps praise on Witts | 08:15

Conversely, the Suns are embarking on their first ever finals campaign after 15 years of shortcomings, with Damien Hardwick’s side finally making noise and a message to the rest of the competition. They’ve arrived.

The club might’ve just made its biggest statement yet, dismantling ‘big brother’ Brisbane in the QClash by a record 66 points to stamp its finals credentials.

It was a stunning response to last week’s big loss to Adelaide, while things would have to go horribly wrong from here for Gold Coast to miss finals.

They face Richmond (People First Stadium), Carlton (Marvel Stadium), GWS, Essendon (both People First Stadium) and Port Adelaide (Adelaide Oval) in their remaining home and away games.

At last, Suns fans can be genuinely proud of of their club and have genuine optimism about what this side could achieve in the coming years under Hardwick, who sensationally said the club already had 80 per cent of its premiership list when he first took the helm at the end of 2023.

Making finals was the first step forward in that journey to bigger things.

“We’ve sat back and watched and (Hardwick) started the whole conversation by saying 80 per cent of his premiership list was there. In 40 games time from that point, he has this team exactly where he hoped to,” dual premiership Kangaroo David King said.

“It’s an amazing achievement really, a club that has meandered for years has been corrected by one man. We should recognise what he’s done.

“But they’re just starting here. There’s so much more for this group to achieve over the next couple of years.

“But you have to tick the first box — that’s finals — and they did that today.”

Tigers champion Jack Riewoldt, who played under Hardwick during the Tigers golden era, highlighted how it was a big response from Gold Coast in the QClash after getting shown up when the two teams met earlier in the year.

“(Hardwick) would be going to town on the fact they got bashed by the Brisbane Lions in Round 8 in similar conditions. The Lions absolutely annihilated them all around the ball. It was an absolute flip of the coin today. They did exactly the same to the Lions,” Riewoldt said.

“Damien Hardwick’s mantra is: ‘We don’t lose to a team twice in a season’.”

‘ARE FANS LOSING FAITH?’ CONCERNS FOR ROOS DIRECTION

When are North Melbourne fans going to start seeing genuine improvement from their side?

The Roos have been stuck in what’s felt like a never-ending rebuild, having finished bottom two on the ladder on each of the last five seasons.

That looks likely yet again after a 101-point to Geelong in the biggest defeat of any side in 2025 and first by triple figures.

We thought, or at least hoped, North had put such performances behind it and that the club was ready to make genuine inroads in year three under Alastair Clarkson. Trading away their 2025 first-round pick and adding veteran trio Luke Parker, Jack Darling and Caleb Daniel would also suggest as much.

But the club finds itself in an all too familiar position as questions are sure to come on its direction and Clarkson after the three-time premiership coach was brought in to be the messiah.

“Do you think North Melbourne fans are losing faith in the direction?,” chief Herald Sun reporter Jay Clark said on Fox Footy.

“This is Alastair Clarkson’s third year, they’ve had six years of top picks.

“At what point do we start to seriously question where this club is going?

“I know they drew with Brisbane mid-year. But surely fans thought these sorts of deplorable losses are behind them?

“They’ve been broken many times over. You wonder whether the team is going forward or backwards.

“They’ve got to do a better job with the talent they have and the system they’ve been working for three years. This is not a new thing.”

Roos direction: "Have you lost faith?" | 07:32

The Roos had eight top 12 draft picks take the field against Geelong — nine including emergency Will Phillips — which was virtually a third of their team.

Yes, they were missing important stars in Tristan Xerri and Nick Larkey against Geelong. But there’s a nucleus at Arden Street that feels capable of more now, with talent on every line and a core of Harry Sheezel, Colby McKercher, George Wardlaw, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Cam Zurhaar, Paul Curtis, Charlie Comben, Xerri, Larkey and others.

It’s no longer a talent issue, even though it’ll clearly still take reps with this group together to gel and ultimately improve. But how long can you keep wheeling out the ‘the future is bright’ line?

“I just get sick of the discussions that it will come next year or in another 20 games. The tomorrow will never come discussion,” Kangaroos legend David King said.

“We want to see more now. I don’t think it’s unfair after two and a half years to start seeing a bit more defensively than what we’re seeing.

“I think if Alastair was honest with us, he’d concede that. The Kangaroos fans are getting frustrated, because they’ve been here for quite some time.

“The promises of, ‘it will get better’ are wearing a bit thin.”

While North has been stuck in a rut for several years, it’s unfair to go beyond the Clarkson era when assessing the current situation.

Still, the Roos are 10-44-1 under Clarkson, having finished 17th (three wins), 17th (three wins) and currently sitting 17th (four wins) respectively during his tenure.

There’s at least a small jump this year, but the club’s defence remains a major issue, having conceded 100-plus points under Clarkson 40 times including on 10 occasions this year.

“There are lackadaisical errors ... that is soul destroying as a player when that happens on the ground,” Tigers champion Jack Riewoldt added.

“It results in getting beaten by 100 points. I’ve been there, this is where players look within.

“Why is this happening again and again and again?”

BLUES ‘DISILLUSION’ AMID TRADE RUMBLINGS

There is reportedly “disillusion” within the Carlton playing group amid recent departure speculation involving spearhead forward Charlie Curnow and swingman Jack Silvagni, with restricted free agent Tom De Koning having been the well-documented subject of speculation for the majority of the year.

At the start of the week, dual Coleman medallist Curnow was reported to have interest in a move to Gold Coast to escape the unforgiving and uncompromising Melbourne ‘footy bubble’.

It was conjecture he moved to publicly shut down following the Blues’ loss to Hawthorn on Thursday night.

However, Nine journalist Sam McClure said the door was “certainly not shut” on the possibility of Curnow departing Princes Park at season’s end — despite being contracted through the 2029 season — and he says there’s a scenario where things could become untidy.

“I see this situation getting a little bit messy, actually. It sounds like there’s some disillusion in the playing group,” McClure said on 3AW.

“The door is certainly not shut on Charlie Curnow leaving … I think it’s more likely he stays at Carlton, because I just don’t think the Blues will do the deal.

“But if the question is ‘do you think Charlie Curnow is still trying to get out of Carlton?’, my answer is yes. And Tom De Koning is going to leave.”

The 28-year-old hasn’t had anywhere near the season he would’ve come into the season hoping for, kicking 32 goals across 18 games; on track for his lowest tally since 2021, when he played just four games. His 1.8 goals per game this year is his lowest mark since 2019.

Clearly, a key reason explaining Curnow’s 2025 regression is the lacklustre form of Carlton as a whole — he definitely isn’t benefitting from the Blues’ forward entries, as Michael Voss’ side is one of the worst-kicking units in the competition.

Curnow: 'I am not leaving this club!' | 03:05

And while a hypothetical fresh start on the Sunshine Coast is certainly food for thought, as McClure notes, a blockbuster trade shapes as near impossible to pull off, given the Blues’ likely asking price.

Gold Coast does currently wield three top-20 picks, though it is expected to stockpile capital in order to match early draft bids for club-tied prospects Zeke Uwland and Dylan Patterson.

Meanwhile, uncertainty also surrounds Silvagni’s situation, with the forward-turned-defender thought to be firmly on Collingwood’s radar as it seeks defensive depth for next year, with Jeremy Howe nearing retirement.

The Blues have reportedly tabled a four-year deal to Silvagni to remain at the club his father played 312 games for, but the utility is holding off — and you can understand why he’d consider a move to the flag-favourite arch-rivals — with McClure declaring the possibility is “moving closer to a reality”.

“So, it’s a situation where, really, the wheels, sadly, are falling off again for this footy club at the end of a season a lot of fans would suggest it’s been a wasted season,” McClure continued.

“They’ve got a coach who’s under pressure, they’ve got a head of footy who’s under pressure.

“They’ve got a list manager who’s under pressure, and they’ve got a chief executive who really has barely been able to get his feet under the desk in Graham Wright.

“I just wonder what is going to happen at this place in the next four to 12 weeks — because whatever it is, there needs to be significant change, not just in personnel, but in culture and attitude.”

It comes as incoming chief executive Graham Wright is expected to make sweeping personnel changes in the off-season — possibly involving dismissing senior coach Michael Voss and football boss Brad Lloyd — mostly revolving around revamping the list.

Alex Cincotta, Billy Wilson, Brodie Kemp, Flynn Young, Francis Evans, Harry Charleson, Harry Lemmey, Jesse Motlop, Mitch McGovern, Nick Haynes, Orazio Fantasia, Rob Monahan and Will White are all uncontracted at Princes Park beyond this season — and given the stage of the season, their futures hang in the balance.

But it remains to be seen whether the rudderless nature of Carlton’s season will prompt a contracted name or two to seek exits in October.

‘EPL’ LIKE GAP BETWEEN ‘HAVES AND HAVE-NOTS’ NEVER BEEN WIDER

The gap between the AFL’s ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ has never been wider than it is in 2025.

That was laid bare across Round 20 with a series of one-sided results, with an average margin of over 57 points.

That included wins by 101 points (Geelong over North Melbourne), 98 points (Adelaide over Port Adelaide), 93 points (Western Bulldogs over Essendon) and 66 points ( Gold Coast over Brisbane).

Heck, for the Dons to have been belted by 93 points, yet having only suffered the third-biggest loss of the round, is some outcome.

“This is why we’re talking about the competition being like the EPL. The haves and the have-nots,” Kangaroos legend David King declared on Fox Footy on Saturday night.

“And we’re seeing it none more vividly than tonight.”

For a key chunk of this season, there’s largely been nine relevant teams.

Sure, Sydney was mathematically a chance until its loss to GWS, and Port Adelaide and Carlton have been hanging around.

But realistically, there’s only been nine teams competing for a spot in the finals and thus the premiership cup for some time now.

It’s made for a series of one-sided results and fixtures where only a select few games genuinely matter. Hence the call for a a wildcard finals play-in to open up the competition, with greater stakes in more games to make fans more engaged across the season.

As King alluded to, the status quo is reminiscent of the English Premier League model, where there’s only a handful of teams fighting it out for the trophy every season.

Of course, the AFL operates under a vastly different system to the EPL, which has private ownership and no salary cap, allowing rich billionaires to limitlessly spend to make their clubs better.

Crows deliver 98-point drumming | 01:45

That doesn’t stop the debate around AFL equality and whether certain clubs perennially benefit on certain advantages, which has become a hot topic in 2025.

So is the massive gap between the good teams and bad teams a one-off outcome for 2025? Or is a bigger issue being exposed?

There will always be an element of bigger, richer clubs having an edge of sorts, but there’s no real consistency to prove those teams are flat out favoured.

Because yes, there’s teams like North Melbourne and St Kilda who have been stuck in the doldrums for some time. But even the likes of Essendon and Carlton have struggled to recapture their powerhouse statuses on field for the best part of this century.

Adelaide hadn’t played finals since 2017, yet is suddenly in contention for the minor premiership, while we’ve seen the best and worst of Brisbane over the last decade.

The Suns and Giants were both given the same, maximum recourses to help with their inception. However, GWS has been the far greater success story to date.

Meanwhile two of the biggest clubs in the league, Richmond and West Coast, are anchored in the bottom three after competing for flags only a few years ago.

The only real consistency is that the best ran clubs with the gold standard of high performance, such as Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney and Collingwood, are the clubs regularly in flag contention or thereabouts.

And if they do tumble down the ladder, it’s generally not for long.

Outside of that, the churn of the relevant teams is constantly mixing and matching, with four of the current top eight teams not playing finals last season, while it’s been five years since a club has won consecutive flags.

So yes, this idea of the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ largely just feels like a 2025 thing.

Try and pick what the ladder will look like in 2026. The one sure thing is it’ll probably look vastly different to right now.

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